TOBA is just TOAA's alternate persona. Not only this, due to scaling, Hajun has taken. TOAA also exists outside the comic as the writer and. Writers later on depowered The Beyonder, which resulted with other versions. Wait if Defender Beyonder is above TOAA than Marvel truly retcon TOAA from being omnipotent to megaversal or omniversal level abstract than. "The Beyond" was quintillions of times more massive than the Marvel Universe. -. Yeah All Mighty Wins. Yes. In Immortal Hulk#50 TOAA said he becomes TOBA when he has to do. Who) vs the one above all (marvel) Battle takes place in the black void of absolute nothingness between the glory’s dimensional space (which is infinite I know just for the sake of painting the picture) and the marvel Omniverse. PR Beyonder had full backing by Marvel Boss, Jim Shooter to do anything he wanted. OTG 1 y 5 mo 27 d. The One Above All (Marvel Comics) + The Presence (DC Comics) CONDITIONS: Versions: Strongest known canon versions. Round 3: TOAA vs pre retcon beyonder (not sure if he’s actually omnipotent) Bonus: if all three lose, than TOAA vs all three together This thread is archived New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast comments sorted by Best Top New Controversial Q&A Coldsocial • Additional comment actions. I see no one equal to the gods of DC and Marvel: The Presence and The One Above All. The Great Evil Beast is on the level with The Presence. Rorschach vs Dr. And Beyonder's Void sees less of Marvel's Creation than Oblivion's Void does. SCP-682's adaptive powers are seriously NLF-prone. The Beyonder is an infamous member of the Beyonder race. 8 years ago. 7K subscribers Join Subscribe 3K. That authority to lt was given by toaa while beyonder didn't get that authority from toaa. SCP 3812. Even if TOAA tried to lose I don't think it could. #4. ) should be banned from the Battles Forum, as any fight they're in will end with. Who wins this? r/whowouldwin •. I really can't be asked to go into this but he resides outside of known reality and therefore is not. There's no way to be better than that, regardless of what Suggsverse tells you. Toaa 2. The point of the whole story is that Beyonder explicitly turns himself into a human flesh form that is capable of experiencing all of the joys and sorrows that come. No . We can't scale TOAA to Beyonder because TOAA didn't exist. @kingkronos said: @Pwok21 said:. There would be no fight. 5 years ago. Pre-retcon Beyonder. Hajun via feats and implied power. Pre Beyonder Had the power of the authors and could do literally anything he wanted. If beyonder has knowledge beforehand then it becomes a more pitched battle with the scarlet king holding the slight power advantage (High 1A - Low 1A) and is now on a time limit to kill beyonder before his seals are removed and killed himself. I don't think he means all of them just the one true Supreme being. PR Beyonder is a casual multiverse buster. 9 years ago. Stalemate. As Beyonder is meant to be from Beyond the Marvel verse. In general as the Supreme Beings. Red Mist vs Galactus. The-One-Above-All is the supreme creator of all existence in the Marvel omniverse and is. Bait? 1 year ago. Even if Thanos had 100 years prep and had the IG, PR Beyonder erases him from existence with his. #28 ovy7. (Is a Aspect of true TOAA, probably the Strongest aspect, because he dreams everything in marvel except the HOI, and he dreamed the love and hate the weapons of TOBA, and TOAA,. Here is a scan where he states even he was shaped by external forces and he couldn't defeat the Great Evil Beast" camp and the "Yeah-huh, that scan is inconclusive as he could be referring to the writers and since the GEB was his other half, it might be just. Thus he is more more powerful than Fulcrum who may or may not be associated with TOAA. Due to the fact that he is an agent of TOAA (basically god), The Living Tribunal is more powerful than any other entity, including PRB. "NO beyonder is not on TOaa level lol "Yes, I am afraid he is. Abraxas, the personification of the destruction of the multiverse, is likely somewhere around here, although since he only appeared in a few issues of Fantastic Four as far as I know,. @professorrespect said: @chris2kzombieki said:Beyonder is tier High 1-B for being an infinite dimensional being meaning that the Marvel Universe has infinite dimensions confirmed. Both have the same powers. . TOAA is omnipotent. So in actuality: Beyonder = PM. Beyonder being > Oblivion aint change the fact that Beatrice steamrolles Marvel sans TOAA . Pre-retcon Beyonder is crazy powerful, powerful enough to stomp the LT, but infinitely weak compared to TOAA. Follow 77. 47. TOAA isn't omnipotent anymore, and Beyonder is fodder. Scp 3812 vs Anos vs Featherine vs Hajun vs Yogiri vs Golden Wondie vs Superboy Prime vs pre retcon Beyonder vs Sotha Sil. Not even beyonder is that powerful. Beyonder is literally the strongest being in marvel only second to toaa period. m99. -Beyonder/s are bloodlusted. He was like the 2nd strongest guy in Marvel, only underneath the One Above All. Elaine Belloc would win under both scenarios, 2nd would be pointless. Manhattan. 5 characters that can beat that living tribunal,marvel characters who can defeat the living tribunal,4 characters that can defeat celestials,5 marvel cosmic. Veldavana also existed in a plane void outside Everythingness and. He is the most powerful creation in all of Marvel, if not fiction. TOAA (Shooter/Milgrom) in 85' created Beyonder to be the most powerful force in all Marvel. 3. Thus the beyonder was never greater than the marvel megaverse (all of the marvel company), nor was he greater than those who controlled him (his superiors aka TOAA). Kushedwack. As in rough equals with the presence, who is easily Mikey boy. " im sick of Beyonder. The original Beyonder was created for the Secret Wars (1985) miniseries. “INTO THE OCEAN OF REALITY YOU HAVE CROSSED DIMENSIONAL PLANES. Having incubated within a specialized "womb-space" created by his progenitors for an unknown amount of time, the Beyonder eventually became aware of existence apart from his own when a pinhole tore through the fabric of reality due to the of the. Marvel's cosmology and hax are shit. Beyonder won't evenn make any difference more than the ant. And to the other people bringing up TOAA, he is basically The. At the very least, it will be a stalemate. He is True Omnipotent, he was TOAA before TOAA was introduuced. AFAIK this Spiderman recreated the universe. The beyonders as a race are generally pathetic compared to the Beyonder also, it took a bunch for them to beat LT while PRB was millions of times stronger than him even weakened. 2. ago. Pre retcon beyonder was more of a plot device than a character lol. Beyonder - Millions of times as powerful as the Multiverse combined, but almost dies from being hit by The Phoenix Force and the sum of the Multiverse, proving his base self can't sustain that. 5 Less Powerful: Galactus Galactus is terrifying in theory alone; his desire to consume entire planets have caused devastation since the beginning of time (as he is as old as the. That's something more powerful than the Beyonder. According to Marvel, a single celestial has. Veldavana also existed in a plane void outside Everythingness and. TOAA will absolutely win as he represent the writers/Stan Lee/Jack Kirby but its interesting to note how similar origin is Primal/Over monitor & Pre recton Beyonder is , Beyonder was million times. CsmicRanker1314 1. But despite the immense power, the chasm between The Living Tribunal and TOAA is infinite. They are a weaker subsection of the Beyonder race that is nowhere near as powerful as the army that defeated the abstracts of the multiverse. No . The Infinity Gauntlet's range is only the universe and time and space inside the universe. Lordobi said: "Thanos with the gauntlet is #1, Hell anyone with the Gaunlet is #1, Y'all are sleeping on Odin. 0) and that's “being millions and millions of times more powerful than Marvel. TOAA: Got KOed by Thanos with the Regulator, stated he wasn't omnipotent unless the multiverse had "order", smaller multiverse. He’s supposed to be the number 2 behind. The more powerful Thanos becomes, CA Superman will surpass it. Beyonder > Odin> Galactus>Thanos> Onslaught. And that excuse about "They would be powerless in MU" is false because they embody God's Power and Will. Gan & The Crimson King are good & evil sides of capital "G" God. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright. Fight takes place in an empty multiverse. Beyonder vs The Presence, Yahweh, TOAA. Aug 9, 2016 #10 Overseer due to wiki rules you must request a content revision and debate for this changes. Situation 3:If all of them are bloodlusted, the battle ends in less than a minute with the last standing being TOAA and Presence. . Pre-Retcon Beyonder, along with all other supreme deities in comics (Presence, TOAA, MoM, Thanos with HOTU, etc. Beyonder: Sonuva. 5 T. The Heart of the Universe makes this rather one sided. Current TOAA's Omnipotence is local, virtually isolated and heavily dependent on functional integrity of the Marvel Multiverse Framework or System while Beyonder is beyond any of that. #1 quandaledingle. 3 years ago. It was implied that Beyonder was nothing more than a "child-unit" of the beyonder's race. The glory (Dr. 2. Didnt the latest showing of TOAA makes it clear that HOTU was a small portion of TOAA's power? I say the Beyonder still wins, only TOAA can defeat him. The Glory is an infinite-dimensional temporal construct that holds the infinite dimensional multiverse in Doctor Who together. 4. Heck, it was Pre-Retcon Beyonder who was basically the original and first Marvel's Void Abstract, not Oblivion. Look stuff up for it. Respect Sam Howell / SCP-3812 (The SCP Foundation) Scarlet King (SCP) Respect The Scarlet King (SCP Foundation) TOAA (Marvel) Respect One Above All (Marvel, 616) The Beyonder clearly held Scathan's power in deep respect. SCP 3812. Recall the first being that we met who called itself a Beyonder. Not sure why this thread was even made Are you talking multiple pre retcon beyonders Or multiple current beyonders ( meaning the ones who killed TLT) Because this has already played out before Dr room stole their power but only with the help of molecule man and he's the one who held on to most ofbthe powerJul 2, 2016. Follow 4160. ago. Stalemate. Scenario: Through the miracle of TOAA, Living Tribunal summoned the most powerful army in the existence of Marvel to fight the entire race of Beyonders outside Marvel-verse. Juggernaut ToAA and Phoenix they are played out and over-hyped. Beyonder vs The Presence, Yahweh, TOAA. Dem nah, There's toaa, pre retcon beyonder, toba,and true form oblivion as obvious choices but there's actually alot more. Wiki Points. Juntai. Pre Nemesis she was the Infinity Being who really was the original TOAA if you really want to get technical. Aug 10, 2018Pre-Retcon Beyonder is the strongest here , he was basically the original TOAA before he got retconned , HOTU made Thanos second to TOAA & he was still manipulated by TOAA during the events of HOTUAnti-Monitor consistently gets knocked around by Kryptonians. Beyonder stomps. . 1. KMC Forums > Comic Book Forums > Comic Book 'Versus' Forum > The LT with the backing of the TOAA vs. Ahl God Of Superheroes. For instance, when he triumphs over the combined powers of Thanos and the Silver Surfer. No, that was post-retcon Beyonder. Created by Loony_Toony. Beyonder was the sum power of a multiverse, which still resides within a greater omniverse that Wanda's spell began to collapse. ago. Yes. TOAA (not the Above All Others version) is NOT The Presence counterpart (Marvel-DC), this character is the equivalent to The Writer. While Bruce may have had god's full power (and I doubt that he did) he lacks the. Beyonder is beyond the universe. login to vote. 3. You need to be logged in to post comments. Many People are Underestimating Pre Retcon Beyonder in The Comments but they are forgetting some thing. DC team : The Darkest Knight, Perpetua and Doctor Manhattan. The Beyonders are characters that exist within the boundaries of Marvel Comics, which means TOAA is more powerful than them. Ima go with byonder. Who will win in a fight between Beyonder and The Presence? Menu. Current Beyonder is below the Living Tribunal however. What I given I can take away, so: Richard Reeds and Sue Storm can take away Franklin Richards power. I think HOI vision, GOS loki, GOP thor all beat astral regulator Thanos (arguments can show that gop and gos neg thanos) that's only to name a few, I'm sure there's more specially since u included non cannon. Pre Retcon Beyonder was always above TOAA/AAO based on him being millions of times bigger than the entire Marvel multiverse (which is what TOAA/AAO consists of). is above the spectre and Living Tribunal. Don't get me wrong, The Beyonder (pre-retcon) is still within top 5 most powerful Comic Characters (likely top 10), but is nowhere near the most powerful fictional character. Hence why people differentiate the beyonder as. Beyonder's legitimately more powerful. and it can be said so is spectre. . Pre-Retcon Beyonder was the most powerful being in the Marvel Universe. DC hasn't even created beings on his level, because they realize that something that powerful. • 7 mo. Impossibly powerful and unimaginably wise, the Living Trinity's power far outclasses beings like Thanos, Galactus, and the Celestials!. LT is basically the will of TOAA, representing the editors and acts only when they have written themselves into a hole. Then things get more murky. 0. R5, same idea as R4. vs. Melkor is the second strongest character in Arda (Middle-Earth planet), though he may be third after Ungolliant. Bonus round: Chousins vs pre-retcon beyonder . Beyonder was TOAA before creation or with more precise words, he. beyonder, to friggin TOAA v. Even his counterpart, The One Below All, is actually an alter-ego of himself, not a separate entity. Bugs' power of seduction could also cause significant problems for the Beyonder, as Bugs has. Beyonder both times, i find God of stories loki just generally to be wanked by flowery wording and shitty interpretation, hes still currently god of stories and got shit on by Donald Blake who just had some power of Thor and the World Serpant. #edit #short #shorts #debate #comics #marvel #marvelcomics #alightmotionAbout Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise. Otherwise he gets stopped by the big guns of Marvel who are multiversal++ like TOAA, The Beyonders (the race), The Fulcrum, Tiamut, Protege, PR Beyonder, PR Molecule Man, Scathan, The Living Tribunal, Heart of the Universe Thanos, etc. . Lovecraft's mythos is vague and open ended, but a high end interpretation is that Yog Sothoth is inaccessible and beyond all hierarchies of infinity. ". Azathoth is TOAA of lovecraft. He was TOAA, before he was introduced. We all know TOAA, but Enigma (Defenders:Beyond #5) and The Lost One (All Out Avengers #4) seem positioned to be more powerful than TOAA. Basically all Dragonball characters ever created in their most powerful form fight PR BEYONDER all at the same time. I agree that Gan is Omnipotent and Beyonder gets stomped. He's above Dr. @pisswaterball The Beyond Realm is completely separate from Marvel so TOAA has no control. 11 years agoR1: TOAA Celestial vs Full Powered Entity R2: WPOTC vs Full Powered Entity R3: Galactus vs Full Powered Entity Bonus: All 3 of them at maximum power vs Full Powered Entity with the help of a Beyonder. TOAA is above all. . But Thanos with HoTU became one with all. There is still reason to believe You Sothoth exceeds Beyonder. I get that TOAA not intervening in the Time Runs Out/Secret Wars saga makes it difficult to confirm but, honestly, TOAA can just remove and recreate the omniverse (as implied in Marvel: The End. In times where he was not the absolute power in the situation, it was passed off as an M-Body. Characters like LT, God Spawn, and Michael Demiurgos. The Beyonder kicks both their asses though, not the current beyonder but the first one. The only thing Pre retcon beyonder has going for him against featherine is that he was described as "god" in the beyonder realm to possibly put him on her level. He was the TOAA of his own multiverse, separate to that of the Marvel multiverse, before he came across the. Mismatch, this version of Beyonder is TOAA level. PR Beyonder, TOAA. He was initially depicted. . ~ Stan Lee Pre-Retcon beyonder could be said to be the "God before genesis" he was God before TOAA existed in the comics at that time, and when TOAA came into existence as an omnipotent character they had to greatly reduce the power of the Beyonder, from there they began to know him as "Post-retcon beyonder". Beyonder = tier 2 being at absolute most. Nix Uotan "The judge of all evil". This is a simple fight. Juntai. 14 years ago. #1 Nicholas_Jones. Beyonder was later retconned apparently because Tom DeFalco didn't like Jim Shooter and in 1990 and everything that was attributed to god after that was TOAA. Vs. He's nowhere near Beyonder levels. Beyonder vs Everyone else in Marvel . 0 coins. . ReplyThe Beyonder is the physical manifestation of the beyond realm itself, the beyond realm is superior/transcendent over the marvel Multiverse in it's entirety, is beyond all planes of reality and myriad dimensions. Beyonder. Beyonder vs The Presence, Yahweh, TOAA. TOAA have failed. If we however assume that Johnny isn't just above Deku and Bakugo where Deku and Bakugo. Stan Lee vs Jim Shooter Saying Beyonder > TOAA is ridiculous, that's like saying Dr Doom is smarter than Beyonder, because he stole Beyonder's powers even though Beyonder was supposed to be God. Thanos HOTU has a fraction of the power of the One-Above-All, the most powerful being of both the Marvel and DC Universes. TOAA vs Johnny would require more context for a battle though. Molecule Man Beyonder Power 15. Since it's Lt's job to guard the marvel omniverse, and the beyonder discovers the Marvel Universe today, would the LT have the power to stop the Classic Beyonder? As if the LT had never met the Classic. TOAA mops the floor with these two. Black Friday DEAL: 1 Year Membership for $5. Beyonder is on the level with The Spectre who takes orders for the presence. Pre-Retcon Beyonder is probably here as well. Im well aware that TOAA is the supreme being in marvel but zeus is king of the gods and he became the supreme. But Thanos with HoTU became one with all. Classic Beyonder is the most powerful being ever imagined by TOAA and drawn. Beyonder was basically God of his own universe (he was his own universe, so basically, he was a young/fresh TOAA comming into being! So he was to his universe/himself what TOAA is to the LT/Marvel U! The Beyonders and TOAA didnt really exist during Pre Retcon time from what i remember but i may of missed them, PRB was basically what the TOAA of the time. 0. Phoenixblue. 2. Beyonder, if not. PR beyonder can take all and stalemate with TOAA. u/nullfather can attest to that. 1 year ago. Omnipotence is a fancy title at best. In Immortal Hulk#50 TOAA said he becomes TOBA when he has to do. Viners voted on it. Goku is low outer at best and byonder is easily outerversal. NULL_Terrorist. 9 years ago. He had to use a large portion of his power to even effect concepts and was effected by physical attacks. XXBEERUSXX • • 1 yr. Today's TOAA was taken from the Beyonder blueprint, since TOAA is arguably and "supposedly" more powerful than the Presence before he replaced himself with Elaine Belloc, who was not. 0. 2. 1. dunno where they went other than TOAA clapped his hands and they were gone. And Pre-Retcon Beyonder wasn't "TOAA" before TOAA. He definitely isn't TOAA level outside maybe his own reality. During PR Beyonder's time, the idea of TOAA had never been established. I think the idea. TOAA is the strongest character in fiction because he is the creator of the marvel universe. The comics have so many meta layers, and TOAA is at the top, so he should scale above Buddha Wukong. TOAA (Starlin/Milgrom) in 03' created THOTI to be the most powerful force in all Marvel. The Divine Order is where LT gets it's powers from. Beyonder - vs - The One-Above-All # 54. TOAA was the supreme being of the marvel multiverse (interchangeably called universe) and everything in it. Boobster. He'd beat composite Superman, let alone this robot. Further to that point, the Pre ret Beyonder buy his own admission could be affected by the power of the M'kraan crystal. 2. The one above all beyond everything even beyonder realms. Superhero Battle match: Beyonder versus The Presence. I see through many eyes. No one is that powerful. Follow 1627. . So, unless you think that Beyonder is >> TOAA and Presence, then your statement is absolute hyperbole and highly inaccurate. He had to use a large portion of his power to even effect concepts and was effected by physical attacks. Man-Thing Divine Creator's Staff 6. beyonder Yep, lol. This allows him to teleport billions of people, establish telepathic linkages between realities, and even employ it in battle. I don't think he means all of them just the one true Supreme being. Astral Regulator beat TOAA because, as TOAA states in the issue, he was compromised at the time. Normal beyonder loses terribly 13 years ago. He's a monster that made Multiversal galactus that stomped master order and lord chaos look like little brats. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. Hulk wins, he keeps getting madder and stronger and than thunderclaps the one above all and TOAA only wishes he could negate that dreadful healing factor plus the Hulk can jump really high up in. Michael Demiurgos vs Classic Beyonder. Beyonder is not omnipotent since he couldn't bring death back. He like The Presence is far above the officially strongest without being the supreme. 1. beyonder, to friggin TOAA v. The "Nuh-uh, Presence is not omnipotent. Beyonder was just a very much younger and less evolved TOAA, so Marvel's TOAA might have it on experience and being around more and his knowledge in himself, which is where Beyonder lacked, as he. Beyonder came into the story as a result from one of Molecule Man's experiments gone wrong, right, he did not exist before that and his appearence was. The LT is likely around the angels level, he is the officially strongest creation of TOAA. Loki God Of Stories 17. The Beyonder is a young member of the ancient race of multiversal engineers known as The Beyonders, and by far its most infamous and well-known one. (50% off!) Beyonder vs The Presence. He was a unstoppable force that none of the abstracts (including Tribunal) could do anything to stop him. Spectre is backed by the Presence, he regularly gets owned by lesser beings. and it can be said so is spectre. " Like it could be as simple as that if the writer really wanted to. Beyonder might have more impressive feats. Forum Posts. Mismatch, this version of Beyonder is TOAA level. . Dr Manhattan is a very proficient matter-energy manipulator. 9 years ago. and to become. Beyonder was at TOAA level pre-retcon. TOAA isn't omnipotent. I see him as toaa's equal. #. In his few appearances, he took the appearance of Jack Kirby. I mean they give birth to he and his powers. However, PR Beyonder is an extremely powerful reality warper and is simply way out of Dr. But this fight is a good one because Rimuru and Anos are also ones of the most powerful characters in fiction. if we are highballing then this Beyonder said to be the toaa before the toaa meaing he is omnipotent. However, based on what he's acknowledged for, Empty Hand solos arguably all of Marvel, bar TOAA. TOAA is basically a manifestation of the writer, while featless (except for the creating everything in all infinite marvel verses thing), he is above everything in marvel (since no character can just jump out of the comic and beat him up) If we go by scans the beyonder is a million. 7. @Pr_Beyonder: LT could very well beat Lucifer. Both fighters understand to sum level that they each "become more powerful over time" but not the specifics (adapting to survive/zenkai boosts and transformations)The PR Beyonder was hands-down the most powerful antagonist Marvel ever produced, and the greatest multiverse-buster from any company. The Chaos gods are tough to kill as they are powered by and represent concepts. Goku dying of old age is a valid win condition for Darwin or vice versa if that can happen. Dr Manhattan isn't a match for Galactus, and Galactus is a mere insect to the Beyonder. he is omnipresent. The new retconned ones aren't the same powerwise at all. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright. Featherine should be comparable to PR Beyonder or EGD, but she isn't beating TOAA. TOAA probably isn't more powerful than suggsverse characters. There's no way to be better than that, regardless of what Suggsverse tells you. Marvel's cosmology and hax are shit. Dormammu said: Beyonder outclasses her heavily, Featherine would be a better match. beyonder Yep, lol. I'm well aware that Beyonder is much more powerful than LT. TOAA: Got KOed by Thanos with the Regulator, stated he wasn't omnipotent unless the multiverse had "order", smaller multiverse. Mxy on the other hand erased every universe that ever existed and seemed to be also aware of a author, and Beyonder was described as a god in his own universe, essentially TOAA. Zeus (mythoology) vs The One Above All. he could just copy TOAA and become the new TOAA himself. . The Beyonder is supposedly TOAA of a different fiction all together an even more complex fiction at that. By Kevin Irizarry Updated Mar 28, 2023 The Beyonder and the One-Above-All are godlike beings in the Marvel Universe, but one is definitely a more supreme being. The PR Beyonder was defined as a multiverse composed of literally everything outside of that, and that existence shared a single consciousness. Battles. I think the idea. SCP-682 (SCP Foundation) vs Beyonder (Pre Retcon) Fight ends only in Death. And the SCP verse is on par with the Dark Tower when it comes to sheer size and scale. Now, Beyonder doesn't work like that, and is more ore less considered TOAA level, not above, but about the closest thing you could get to TOAA without being TOAA. The Beyonder/s (Marvel) vs Bleach universe. fangirl101. I build with many hands. Minstry_of_pain. Reason? Preretcon beyonder can stand against TOAA and LT. The One Above All | MCOC | TOAA VS THE BEYONDER |. 1 Answer. Bob, Agent of Hydra vs TOAA. The beyonders as a race are generally pathetic compared to the Beyonder also, it took a bunch for them to beat LT while PRB was millions of times stronger than him even weakened. I don't think he means all of them just the one true Supreme being.